[iaoa-education] Transcript IAOA Education Committee n.11 - Wed 10 Aug 2016: Minutes
Frank Loebe
frank.loebe at informatik.uni-leipzig.de
Wed Sep 7 19:07:51 CEST 2016
Dear all,
please find below an unedited copy of the session transcript of the
Education Committee meeting n.11, held on Aug 10, 2016.
Best regards,
Frank
= 11th Meeting of the IAOA Techn. Comm. on Education - Aug 10, 2016 =
== call details (summary) ==
* Date: Wed 2016.08.10
* Start Time: 07:00 PDT / 10:00 EDT / 15:00 BST / 16:00 CEST
11:00 BRT / 16:00 SAST (cf. [A] for local times)
* Duration: ~1.0 Hours
* Dial-in via Skype:
https://join.skype.com/a36OQeLjaIzd
* in-session chat:
http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/iaoa_edu_20160810
* Education Committee Wiki
http://iaoaedu.cs.uct.ac.za/
[A] local meeting date and time(s)
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20160810T1400&ah=1&am=00
-- unedited chat transcript --
[15:52] MariaKeet: = 11th Meeting of the IAOA Techn. Comm. on Education
- Aug 10, 2016 =
[15:52] MariaKeet: == agenda ==
0. adoption of agenda
1. EduTC to act as ISAO Steering Committee?
2. ontology textbook
a. interested parties & feedback
b. next steps
c. work resources
1: github space set up? [MK]
2: need for separate mailing list?
3. Applied Ontology Terminology
a. feedback in thread @ [ontolog-forum]
b. new definitions added in wiki [3]?
c. relation with Wikipedia pages
4. future EduTC projects
a. ontology competition: suspend? when to reconsider?
5. minor administrative tasks
a. ISAO website zip file requested from Oliver Kutz? [MK]
b. link to EduTC wiki added to IAOA website? [FL]
6. AOB
7. next meeting(s)
a. Wed, Sep 7, 2016
b. Wed, Oct 5 vs. Oct 12, 2016
== long-term Agenda ==
A. Ontology Competition [2016]
* [action] [MK] describe ideas on the competition
** noted on Mar 02, 2016, originally for ISAO by May 2016
** no deadline set wrt an independent competition
= pre-meeting material =
== 1. EduTC to act as ISAO Steering Committee? ==
Following up on ISAO 2016 [1], the EduTC is asked to function as ISAO
Steering Committee, in general.
< excerpt of [2] >
In anticipation of the next Edu TC meeting on August 10, please provide
input already on:
Should the Edu TC serve as a sort of standing "steering committee"
for ISAO?
It is/was the intention of the EC that the whole EduC takes care of
initiating the ISAO process. This would involve finding a general
chair, a PC chair, and a local chair. It also would include decisions
on:
- co-location of ISAO with other events, or possible decoupling from
other events and such, and
- whether the ISAO should be a yearly event or once in 2 years.
</ excerpt >
[1] ISAO 2016 website
http://isao2016.inf.unibz.it/
[2] email MKeet of Jul 28, 2016
https://listserv.ovgu.de//pipermail/iaoa-education/2016-July/000054.html
== 2. ontology textbook: interested parties & feedback ==
* interested parties according to email [1] and those following up [2]
[status: Aug 03, 2016 13:00 UTC]
MA Mara Abel (+ PhD students)
JB Julita Bermejo-Alonso
MK Maria Keet
FL Frank Loebe
SL Sandra Lovrencic
AW Andrea Westerinen
ZW Zena Wood
comment [3 [reformatted]] by MA, Jul 28:
* it would be more efficient if you, or the small group, could pass
defined tasks to be done.
* We can be useful in manual work than requires time to be done, and
react quickly, since I have a good team of students deeply involved
with formal ontology.
comment by FL, Aug 03 [original]:
* clarify scope & target audience of the textbook
* in case of a teaching focus, start collecting
** teaching and learning goals
** topics
* formal representation and languages: which level/aspiration in this
respect?
[1] https://listserv.ovgu.de//pipermail/iaoa-education/2016-July/000055.html
[2] https://listserv.ovgu.de//pipermail/iaoa-education/2016-July/date.html
[3] https://listserv.ovgu.de//pipermail/iaoa-education/2016-July/000059.html
== 3a. Applied Ontology Terminology: feedback in thread @ [ontolog-forum] ==
* Jul 28, 2016: SL starts a thread "Applied Ontology Terminology" [1] at
[ontolog-forum], hinting on the former [2] and the current [3] term lists
* proposals for further procedure by John Sowa (Jul 31) [4]
[summarized & rearranged, 6.+7. attributed to Christiane Fellbaum]
1. general editor for general project management
2. associate editors for handling term subsets
3. open set of contributors submitting citations and information to
associate editors
4. build on earlier editions/work
5. enable term suggestions by contributors
6. accommodate everyone's definitions of a term
7. collect and cluster real example sentences (as term contexts)
* hint on COSMO ontology [5] by Patrick Cassidy (Jul 2 [6]
* update suggestion for diagram on [2] by Gary Berg-Cross (Jul 31) [7],
with a comment on the diagram's history by Todd Schneider (Jul 31)
* technical comment on use of the archived Ontolog wiki by Peter Yim
(Jul 29) [8]
* technical comment on use of the current Ontolog wiki for terminology
gathering by John Sowa (Jul 29) [9]
** promoting Ontolog wiki as being open and free of charge, unrelated
to IAOA membership fees
[1] thread "Applied Ontology Terminology" @ [ontolog-forum]
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ontolog-forum/jqyp91GRIuo
[2] term list produced by IAOA Ontology Terminology Subcommittee
(2012-2013)
http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/IaoaOntologyTerminology.html
[3] current term list in IAOA EduTC Wiki
http://iaoaedu.cs.uct.ac.za/pmwiki.php?n=IAOAEdu.TermList
[4] https://groups.google.com/d/msg/ontolog-forum/jqyp91GRIuo/_jUEp_BVBgAJ
[5] COSMO ontology
http://micra.com/COSMO/
[6] https://groups.google.com/d/msg/ontolog-forum/jqyp91GRIuo/n67OnNhOBgAJ
[7] https://groups.google.com/d/msg/ontolog-forum/jqyp91GRIuo/qUWePkQ7BwAJ
[8] https://groups.google.com/d/msg/ontolog-forum/jqyp91GRIuo/s-vHwSmCBgAJ
[9] https://groups.google.com/d/msg/ontolog-forum/jqyp91GRIuo/CWAU9_qTBgAJ
[16:07] FrankLoebe: @ Andrea: Are you trying to join the call on Skype?
[16:07] AndreaWesterinen: Yes
[16:08] FrankLoebe: We'll hang up again and Maria will restart the call
-hpefully you can join then.
[16:09] ToddSchneider: Now I can't join.
[16:09] AndreaWesterinen: I am having trouble getting this working with
my mac.
[16:09] ZenaWood: Todd can you start the call please?
[16:09] FrankLoebe: Todd or andrea, can you start the call, please?
[16:11] ZenaWood: Agenda adopted
[16:11] ZenaWood: 1. EduTC to act as ISAO Steering Committee?
[16:12] ZenaWood: EC would like the ISAO to be lead by ISAO (finding
chairs and venue etc)
[16:13] ZenaWood: Would nee dot figure out how it would work
[16:13] FrankLoebe: ZW: we'd need to figure out a procedure within the
EduTC, e.g., who takes the lead on that
[16:14] ZenaWood: FL: It would be worth a try with the responsibility
being with the EdCo
[16:14] ZenaWood: TS: Who organised this years?
[16:14] ZenaWood: FL: 2016 OK local chair, MK and ZW PCs. Previously
organised by Giancarlo
[16:15] ZenaWood: MK: It was quite ad hoc this year
[16:15] ZenaWood: FL: EC would like to distribute education event to
other people
[16:15] AndreaWesterinen: I am a bit worried that this is a big effort
and we will not have bandwidth for other activities as well.
[16:16] ZenaWood: TS: We should at least be the lead - thematic scope is
there
[16:17] ZenaWood: MK: ISAO took a lot of time from the EdCo this year
[16:17] ZenaWood: FL: Trying to find a local chair should be easier -
should be co-located with the FOIS conference
[16:18] ZenaWood: FL: Will need coordination with EC and FOIS chair
[16:18] ZenaWood: ZW: Rols need to be clearly defined
[16:18] ZenaWood: MK: If it is just finding people then that is OK but
if it is organisation we need more people to take up this activity each year
[16:19] ZenaWood: FL: Key question is finding people.
[16:20] ZenaWood: TS: What are the repsonsibilities before voting?
[16:20] ZenaWood: MK: This information is in the email (and excerpt in
agenda)
[16:20] MariaKeet: role to be: This would involve finding a general
chair, a PC chair, and a local chair. It also would include decisions
on:
- co-location of ISAO with other events, or possible decoupling from
other events and such, and
- whether the ISAO should be a yearly event or once in 2 years.
[16:20] ZenaWood: FL: Finding general chairs, PC chairs, local chairs
should be coordinated with FOIS
[16:21] ZenaWood: FL: Whether ISAO is every year or every other year is
not going to happen too often
[16:21] ZenaWood: AW: Does this include setting agendas?
[16:21] ZenaWood: FL: This would be the role of the PCs
[16:22] ZenaWood: MK: This year was a little different to this
[16:22] ZenaWood: MK: Task is to find a general chair and PC chair
[16:22] ZenaWood: FL: We should provide ideas of suitable topics or at
some point the committee looks at the proposal from PCs.
[16:23] ZenaWood: AW: We need to be clear about responsibilities
[16:23] ZenaWood: FL: We will need to find someone, which could be difficult
[16:24] AndreaWesterinen: If we can't find someone to be the PC chair,
does the event not happen?
[16:24] ZenaWood: FL: There is no implicit assumption that we would need
to do it ourselves. We would have to query the EC
[16:25] ZenaWood: TS: That condition needs to be explicit
[16:25] ZenaWood: AW: Agree that this is the right committee to agree
and steer but not fall to us if no one is found
[16:26] ZenaWood: FL: EduC agrees to act as initiator of ISAO but will
not do it if local and PC chairs are not found
[16:26] ZenaWood: Decision made!
[16:26] ZenaWood: Conditional decision made
[16:26] ZenaWood: This wil be passed to the EC
[16:27] ZenaWood: FL: We have FOIS 2018 call, which goes out in the next
few days. They are also offered to host ISAO 2018. We should try to
avoid looking for people to too late.
[16:27] ZenaWood: FL: After we know who the FOIS proposal comes from we
should reconsider the issue (in October)
[16:27] ZenaWood: 2. ontology textbook
a. interested parties & feedback
b. next steps
c. work resources
1: github space set up? [MK]
2: need for separate mailing list?
[16:29] ZenaWood: TS: In connection with the suggestion from Nicola. If
there is going to be a textbook, should we combine with wikipedia to
maintain information?
[16:29] ZenaWood: MK: Currently the information on Wikipedia is awful
[16:29] AndreaWesterinen: Yes, that was why it might be important for us
to curate it.
[16:29] ZenaWood: MK: There are various modes on how you could order an
ontology textbook (e-book, soft copy, webpage ...)
[16:30] ZenaWood: TS: WIkipedia has lots of infrastructure that comes
with it
[16:30] ZenaWood: TS: Textbook is often a one-off deal and follow up
with new editions. Material will be more dynamic so Wikipedia might be
the way to go
[16:31] ZenaWood: FL: There is a little gap. The textbook would have
flow of chapters where individual Wikipedia articles would be more
self-contained with links to other pages
[16:31] AndreaWesterinen: We could also use the textbook to update
wikipedia.
[16:31] ZenaWood: MK: A textbook would include questions and answers
[16:32] ZenaWood: MK: It would depend how the textbook is published and
the various copyright regulations
[16:32] ZenaWood: TS: Wikipedia is the first place a lot of people go first
[16:33] ZenaWood: TS: Could the updating of Wikipedia be couple with the
textbook?
[16:33] ZenaWood: FL: Going in parallel can be efficient but not
necessarily always the case
[16:34] ZenaWood: FL: Both would require a lot of time
[16:34] ZenaWood: TS: Text book more work than wikipedia
[16:34] MariaKeet:
https://keet.wordpress.com/2015/07/12/wikipedia-open-access-not-quite-a-revolution-not-yet-at-least/
[16:35] ZenaWood: ZW: Are they not two different audiences (wikipedia
and textbook)?
[16:35] Sandra morphed into SandraLovrencic
[16:35] AndreaWesterinen: Stack Overflow is what most developers depend
on. And, it is curated/upvoted and downvoted/...
[16:35] ZenaWood: FL: The way we define terms could be different for
more general reader and students who may wish to have more detail
[16:36] ZenaWood: TS: Stack Overflow focus more on coding instead of
concepts
[16:36] ZenaWood: MK: Before we delve into how we would do the textbook
- who are the interested parties and what would be the next step? How do
we divide the resources? Do we need a separate group?
[16:37] ZenaWood: ZW: Think we need a separate meeting to focus on
textbook instead of using the monthly call
[16:38] ZenaWood: AW would like to be involved in textbook and recommend
subgroup
[16:38] ZenaWood: MK: We move the conversation to the subgroup
[16:41] ZenaWood: MK: For the textbook we will have a subgroup and
report back at this monthly meeting on progress
[16:41] ZenaWood: 3. Applied Ontology Terminology
a. feedback in thread @ [ontolog-forum]
b. new definitions added in wiki [3]?
c. relation with Wikipedia pages
[16:41] ZenaWood: SL: Everything collected from Ontology forum?
[16:42] ZenaWood: TS: Recent material or items from emails?
[16:42] ZenaWood: SL: Everything from the forum
[16:43] ZenaWood: SL: Received a message from Barry who has a lot of
terms but we need to ask MIT press permission
[16:44] ZenaWood: SL: Barry has to ask for the permission
[16:44] ZenaWood: FL: How does the terms relate to his book?
[16:44] ZenaWood: SL: Need to confirm
[16:45] ZenaWood: TS: Some of the terms we already have from the book.
[16:46] ZenaWood: SL: So ask for permission for the additional ones that
we want
[16:46] ZenaWood: TS: We would have to filter
[16:47] ZenaWood: TS: Not everyone will agree on terms so need to gather
the commonly agreed definitions
[16:47] ZenaWood: SL: Will speak to Barry to say that we would like to
use the terms and ask permission
[16:48] ZenaWood: AW: We want to collect the definitions and review them
and curate them ourselve
[16:48] ZenaWood: TS: Ginacarlo and Nicola will need to be included
[16:48] ZenaWood: TS: IAOA have a page of these terms too?
[16:49] FrankLoebe: http://iaoaedu.cs.uct.ac.za/
[16:49] ZenaWood: TS: Thinks this might be the EDuC page
[16:50] ZenaWood: TS: AN email has been sent to Giancarlo and Nicole for
definitions from their paper but we are waiting for a repsonse
[16:52] ZenaWood: TS: Thought he had subscribed but not receiving
emails. FL will check
[16:52] ToddSchneider: tjschneider at covad.net
[16:53] FrankLoebe: Tha call is gone, right?
[16:54] ZenaWood: 3. Applied Ontology Terminology
a. feedback in thread @ [ontolog-forum]
b. new definitions added in wiki [3]?
c. relation with Wikipedia pages
[16:55] ZenaWood: AW: It would be good as part of EduC to update Wiki.
Could focus on the pages whilst building the textbook
[16:55] ZenaWood: MK: Will need to harmonise for the textbook
[16:56] ZenaWood: AW: The wikipedia page is a short discussion of
concept with textbook having more depth
[16:56] ZenaWood: AW: Where there is clarity on terms we could curate
those wikipedia pages
[16:57] ZenaWood: FL: The state of wikipedia pages was raised in FOIS
assembly but a general issue of how much time we have to spend on all of
these projects
[16:57] ZenaWood: MK: Wikipedia cleaning should not be the
responsibility of EDuC. A call should be sent out to the commmunity
[16:58] ZenaWood: MK: Updating wikipedia could be a full time job
[16:58] AndreaWesterinen: Is this something that the educ committee
monitors and spearheads?
[16:59] ZenaWood: FL: Good idea to go for the textbook and then see if
there is anything that can be used to revise a set of Wikipedia pages.
[16:59] ZenaWood: MK: Students are populating a Wiki from her lectures
[16:59] ZenaWood: AW: Could be that we do not own it but highlight where
work needs to be done
[17:00] ZenaWood: MK: Who is responsible for PR of the organisation?
[17:00] ZenaWood: MK: This could be a PR exercise
[17:00] ZenaWood: FL: Need to revise PR committee
[17:01] AndreaWesterinen: Certainly the wikipedia work is secondary, but
it would be very visible.
[17:03] ZenaWood: FL: Need to identify how to motivate people to update
certain Wiki pages.
[17:03] ZenaWood: AW: Our focus should be on definitions and curating
the definitions
[17:04] ZenaWood: ZW: Will be determined in subgroup
[17:04] ZenaWood: 4. future EduTC projects
a. ontology competition: suspend? when to reconsider?
[17:05] ZenaWood: FL: When should this go on agenda
[17:05] ZenaWood: FL: Suspend until November meeting
[17:06] ZenaWood: 5. minor administrative tasks
a. ISAO website zip file requested from Oliver Kutz? [MK]
b. link to EduTC wiki added to IAOA website? [FL]
[17:06] ZenaWood: MK: Let her know if anyone wants the slides from the
ISAO quiz
[17:06] ZenaWood: AW, SL and FL would like them
[17:07] ZenaWood: MK: Will send OK link
[17:07] ZenaWood: FL: Link has been added to IAOA (5b)
[17:08] ZenaWood: AOB?
[17:08] ZenaWood: No
[17:08] ZenaWood: 7. next meeting(s)
a. Wed, Sep 7, 2016
b. Wed, Oct 5 vs. Oct 12, 2016
[17:08] ZenaWood: Sept 7 would not have Maria or Zena
[17:09] ZenaWood: Sept. 14th would work for SL, FL, MK and AW
[17:09] ZenaWood: Next meeting will be Sept 14th with announcement a
week before (7th)
[17:09] ZenaWood: Zena sends aplogies for next meeting
[17:09] ZenaWood: Meeting closed
[17:09] ZenaWood: Present: Frank, Maria, Andrea, Todd, Sandra and Zena
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