[iaoa-education] IAOA Education Committee Meeting n.31 on Tue, Sep 04, 2018: minutes
Frank Loebe
frank.loebe at informatik.uni-leipzig.de
Tue Sep 4 19:02:18 CEST 2018
Dear all,
please find below and attached the minutes of the Education Committee
meeting n.31, held earlier today.
I have just made very few minor edits, including a rearrangement to
bring interrelated lines closer together. Overall, the quality of the
transcript during the meeting should be improved - I'm sorry.
If you have any questions, comments or change requests, please let me know.
Best regards,
Frank
= 31st Meeting of the IAOA Techn. Comm. on Education - Sept. 4, 2018 =
--> Meeting n.31 Tue, Sept. 4, 2018 [1]
10:00 EDT / 15:00 BST / 16:00 CEST / 16:00 SAST
Skype: https://join.skype.com/a36OQeLjaIzd
Chat : http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/iaoa_edu_20180904
-- chat transcript, very lightly edited --
[15:56] MariaKeet: .
= 31st Meeting of the IAOA Techn. Comm. on Education - Sept. 4, 2018 =
== participants ==
expecting:
JB Julita Bermejo-Alonso
MK Maria Keet
FL Frank Loebe
SL Sandra Lovrencic
RR Robert Rovetto
TS Todd Schneider
ZW Zena Wood
regrets:
< none >
== agenda ==
0. adoption of agenda
1. termlist updates and discussion
a. summary of updates/progress since last meeting [FL]
b. decide whether to announce it at ISAO
2. update on ISAO 2018 [MK]
? 3. former pub quizzes: ISAO 2016 quiz in Wordpress [ZW]
4. EduTC chairing
5. AOB
6. next meeting(s) with new semester schedules
= pre-meeting material =
== 1. termlist timeline ==
timeline until ISOA 2018
(derived and extended from minutes of meeting n.28, Apr 10)
* Jun 30 (Sat): 1st version (draft)
* Jul 31 (Tue): 2nd version (prefinal)
* during August: consistency checking (4 weeks)
* Sep 02 (Sun): 3rd version (final prior to ISAO)
* Sep 04 (Tue): EduTC discussion
* Sep 05 (Wed): announcement
* Sep 10-15: ISAO 2018
== next meetings ==
default: first Tuesdays each month
10:00 EDT / 15:00 BST / 16:00 CEST / 16:00 SAST yield
* Tue, Oct 02, 2018
* Tue, Nov 06, 2018
[15:57] MariaKeet: regrets: Zena, Todd, and possibly Sandra as well
[16:04] FrankLoebe: < session started >
[16:05] FrankLoebe: .
== 0. adoption of agenda ==
agenda adopted
[16:05] FrankLoebe: .
== 1. termlist updates and discussion ==
a. summary of updates/progress since last meeting [FL]
b. decide whether to announce it at ISAO
[16:06] RobRovetto: my two cents is not to announce it. It's incomplete,
there are open questions I think, etc.
[16:08] RobRovetto: (having some speaker issues)...
[16:09] FrankLoebe: MK raised the question of whether we announce the
list at ISAO
[16:12] RobRovetto: Another reason to not show the list is this.
Currently it seems to have many or mostly terms from specific
ontologies. The IAOA should remain neutral. Additionally, those specific
ontologies can (and I believe will) use any list as advertisement for
itself or to falsely show it's influence or use. Therefore it would be
more responsible for the list to have more terms from a more diverse
group of ontologies or ontology literature. Thus, at the very least the
list should not be distributed or pushed. Mentioning it as in progress
with much work is ok, but not pushing it forward for distribution.
[16:16] RobRovetto: Sidebar: There is certainly a paper in developing
and improving fundamental terminology such as these (foundational,
upper, core, domain, etc.). Not to get off topic, but if any of you are
interested in co-authoring on something like this and there's funding
available, i'd be interested.
[16:20] RobRovetto: One question is: if there are types of ontologies or
only applications. I think someone (not sure who) said that all
ontologies are the same, but what is different is the application, use,
and where they are placed in a wider system. So these aspects may not
necessarily yield TYPES of ontologies.
[16:23] FrankLoebe: FL: I agree the term list is incomplete, but
nevertheless I would have thought it can be shown to ISAO participants,
whereas it's not really ready for announcing it to the overall IAOA
membership.
[16:25] FrankLoebe: < discussion about announcing the list or not, to
make use of it or extending it during mini-projects at ISAO >
[16:25] RobRovetto: Sidebar: does anyone know of short-notice funding
available to fly to capetown? I'd be willing to agree to labor of some
sort, or work for some period of time for the funding. I'd like to
attend and use the opportunity to be in Capetown to pursue opportunity.
[16:26] FrankLoebe: JB: my personal opinion is to rather present it as
work-in-progress, thereby possibly getting more people on board
[16:27] FrankLoebe: FL: +1
[16:27] MariaKeet: MK: +1
[16:31] RobRovetto: 'General Ontology' and/or 'Generic ontology' were
used in some publications although I don't know which. In their usage,
the term accurately captures the fact that the ontology terms are for
generic or broad use (i.e. what today is often called 'upper')
[16:34] RobRovetto: Another reason (related to the last) to not
distribute or announce to the whole membership the list is that IAOA
should not inadvertently direct persons to a specific ontology. If the
list currently has most terms from a particular upper ontology,
attendees of ISAO who may be unaware of upper ontologies may be directed
to that particular one. So the effect may be of inadvertently biasing
attendees.
[16:35] RobRovetto: Interesting parallel with another project. The
Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy has calls for people to describe a
term. I think some are on our term list.
[16:35] RobRovetto: e.g., Event, Predicate, etc.
[16:38] RobRovetto: So for foundational, upper, etc. I think more
discussion is needed. Short of that discussion, I don't think
Foundational Onto should necessarily be synonym with Upper, nor Upper
Onto with Top-level Onto.
[16:41] FrankLoebe: [action] [MK] find out how to delete pages on pmwiki
[16:41] RobRovetto: empty pages means?
[16:41] FrankLoebe: [action] [MK] delete empty pages (which just contain
a heading) by Fri, Sep 07, such that uncovered terms are marked with
question marks
[16:44] FrankLoebe: [agreement] there'll be no general publicization of
the term list to all IAOA members, but use of it - as work in progress -
at ISAO
[16:44] RobRovetto: For adding definitions to the wiki, we are free to?
[16:44] RobRovetto: e.g., object has only one i think
[16:44] FrankLoebe: @Rob: yes
[16:44] FrankLoebe: @Rob: yes, please add if you have definitions,
ideally with references
[16:46] RobRovetto: definitions from ontology texts (metaphysics,
philosophy, possibly formal ontology) as well? Or would you say only
from applied ontology groups/literature/projects?
[16:46] FrankLoebe: @Rob: yes, also definitions from related fields, not
only applied ontology
[16:45] FrankLoebe: [agreement] the term list will be mentioned in the
Assembly, as EduTC activity
[16:45] FrankLoebe: .
== 2. update on ISAO 2018 ==
[16:47] RobRovetto: is it a diverse group?
[16:47] FrankLoebe: Aldo Gangemi cannot come [[...]], MK will step in to
chair at the event itself
[16:47] FrankLoebe: 17 participants so far
[16:49] RobRovetto: various universities, countries, or companies?
[16:49] RobRovetto: yes, attendees of isao
[16:50] FrankLoebe: MK: yes, it is, some people from UCT and some from
Stellenbosch, further ones from Africa, plus from Germany, Italy,
Canada, U.S., etc.
[16:52] FrankLoebe: MK: two people with industry background as it seems;
about 13 PhD students, 4 with PhD already
[16:59] RobRovetto: (lost internet connectivity)
[16:59] FrankLoebe: < discussion about remaining organizational points;
most is settled, Pub quiz is a bit up in the air until new questions
arrive >
[16:59] RobRovetto: Sidebar: has anyone considered Slack for IAOA Edu or
IAOA in general?
[17:00] FrankLoebe: .
== 4. EduTC chairing ==
[17:00] FrankLoebe: MK: I note that Zena and myself chair the EduTC
since 2014
[17:01] FrankLoebe: MK: I'm open to receive statements of interest [[for
chairing the group, to have a change at some point]]
[17:03] FrankLoebe: FL: it's true, we don't actually have any policy for
such changes ...
[17:04] RobRovetto: would you repeat the question, please?
[17:08] FrankLoebe: [action] [FL] add EduTC comments to the FOIS
Assembly agenda
[17:08] RobRovetto: none [[regarding: further comments?]]
[17:10] FrankLoebe: MK: If there are any comments either on any kind of
rotation model or any personal statements of interest, please let me know.
[17:11] MariaKeet: https://people.cs.uct.ac.za/~mkeet/OEbook/
[17:11] FrankLoebe: MK: the URL just provided refers to my revision of
my own lecture notes, now turned into an online textbook
[17:13] FrankLoebe: MK: for the Assembly, I'd basically report on a list
of activities that the EduTC has pursued
[17:15] FrankLoebe: [action] [MK] provide a slide with such items for
the Assembly slide set
[17:18] RobRovetto: Other thoughts on term list and textbook (another
approach): How about an application-based approach. Instead or in
addition to beginning with or listing various definitions, we begin with
project goals and applications, and how the concept or definition of
'ontology' changes accordingly, and whether ontology architecture
changes accordingly, and if/how the use of concepts such as
'foundational', 'top', 'bottom', 'middle', 'core' 'domain' enters the
picture. I think a dynamic visualization of all this is possible:
perhaps an ontology visualization of conepts that go into describing and
applying ontologies
[17:19] MariaKeet:
http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/OntologySummit2007_FrameworksForConsideration/DimensionsMap.html
[17:20] FrankLoebe: MK: ^ as a reply to Robert's comment
[17:20] RobRovetto: i had something more three dimensional and ambitious
in mind. but for another discussion
[17:21] RobRovetto: also had in mind pedagogical approaches for us--as
IAOA Education
[17:18] FrankLoebe: MK: what to say about future plans?
[17:22] FrankLoebe: FL: at some point the EduTC needs to think of the
next ISAO, i.e., ISAO 2020, to get this initiated early enough
[17:22] FrankLoebe: .
== 6. next meeting(s) with new semester schedules ==
[17:24] FrankLoebe: FL: we should find a new time in order to allow Todd
to join, if he wishes to
[17:25] FrankLoebe: [action] [MK] set up a Doodle poll and publicize it
via [iaoa-education]
[17:26] FrankLoebe: < session ends >
[17:27] FrankLoebe: .
== participants ==
* JB Julita Bermejo-Alonso
* MK Maria Keet
* FL Frank Loebe
* RR Robert Rovetto
< transcript ends >
-------------- next part --------------
= 31st Meeting of the IAOA Techn. Comm. on Education - Sept. 4, 2018 =
--> Meeting n.31 Tue, Sept. 4, 2018 [1]
10:00 EDT / 15:00 BST / 16:00 CEST / 16:00 SAST
Skype: https://join.skype.com/a36OQeLjaIzd
Chat : http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/iaoa_edu_20180904
-- chat transcript, very lightly edited --
[15:56] MariaKeet: .
= 31st Meeting of the IAOA Techn. Comm. on Education - Sept. 4, 2018 =
== participants ==
expecting:
JB Julita Bermejo-Alonso
MK Maria Keet
FL Frank Loebe
SL Sandra Lovrencic
RR Robert Rovetto
TS Todd Schneider
ZW Zena Wood
regrets:
< none >
== agenda ==
0. adoption of agenda
1. termlist updates and discussion
a. summary of updates/progress since last meeting [FL]
b. decide whether to announce it at ISAO
2. update on ISAO 2018 [MK]
? 3. former pub quizzes: ISAO 2016 quiz in Wordpress [ZW]
4. EduTC chairing
5. AOB
6. next meeting(s) with new semester schedules
= pre-meeting material =
== 1. termlist timeline ==
timeline until ISOA 2018
(derived and extended from minutes of meeting n.28, Apr 10)
* Jun 30 (Sat): 1st version (draft)
* Jul 31 (Tue): 2nd version (prefinal)
* during August: consistency checking (4 weeks)
* Sep 02 (Sun): 3rd version (final prior to ISAO)
* Sep 04 (Tue): EduTC discussion
* Sep 05 (Wed): announcement
* Sep 10-15: ISAO 2018
== next meetings ==
default: first Tuesdays each month
10:00 EDT / 15:00 BST / 16:00 CEST / 16:00 SAST yield
* Tue, Oct 02, 2018
* Tue, Nov 06, 2018
[15:57] MariaKeet: regrets: Zena, Todd, and possibly Sandra as well
[16:04] FrankLoebe: < session started >
[16:05] FrankLoebe: .
== 0. adoption of agenda ==
agenda adopted
[16:05] FrankLoebe: .
== 1. termlist updates and discussion ==
a. summary of updates/progress since last meeting [FL]
b. decide whether to announce it at ISAO
[16:06] RobRovetto: my two cents is not to announce it. It's incomplete, there are open questions I think, etc.
[16:08] RobRovetto: (having some speaker issues)...
[16:09] FrankLoebe: MK raised the question of whether we announce the list at ISAO
[16:12] RobRovetto: Another reason to not show the list is this. Currently it seems to have many or mostly terms from specific ontologies. The IAOA should remain neutral. Additionally, those specific ontologies can (and I believe will) use any list as advertisement for itself or to falsely show it's influence or use. Therefore it would be more responsible for the list to have more terms from a more diverse group of ontologies or ontology literature. Thus, at the very least the list should not be distributed or pushed. Mentioning it as in progress with much work is ok, but not pushing it forward for distribution.
[16:16] RobRovetto: Sidebar: There is certainly a paper in developing and improving fundamental terminology such as these (foundational, upper, core, domain, etc.). Not to get off topic, but if any of you are interested in co-authoring on something like this and there's funding available, i'd be interested.
[16:20] RobRovetto: One question is: if there are types of ontologies or only applications. I think someone (not sure who) said that all ontologies are the same, but what is different is the application, use, and where they are placed in a wider system. So these aspects may not necessarily yield TYPES of ontologies.
[16:23] FrankLoebe: FL: I agree the term list is incomplete, but nevertheless I would have thought it can be shown to ISAO participants, whereas it's not really ready for announcing it to the overall IAOA membership.
[16:25] FrankLoebe: < discussion about announcing the list or not, to make use of it or extending it during mini-projects at ISAO >
[16:25] RobRovetto: Sidebar: does anyone know of short-notice funding available to fly to capetown? I'd be willing to agree to labor of some sort, or work for some period of time for the funding. I'd like to attend and use the opportunity to be in Capetown to pursue opportunity.
[16:26] FrankLoebe: JB: my personal opinion is to rather present it as work-in-progress, thereby possibly getting more people on board
[16:27] FrankLoebe: FL: +1
[16:27] MariaKeet: MK: +1
[16:31] RobRovetto: 'General Ontology' and/or 'Generic ontology' were used in some publications although I don't know which. In their usage, the term accurately captures the fact that the ontology terms are for generic or broad use (i.e. what today is often called 'upper')
[16:34] RobRovetto: Another reason (related to the last) to not distribute or announce to the whole membership the list is that IAOA should not inadvertently direct persons to a specific ontology. If the list currently has most terms from a particular upper ontology, attendees of ISAO who may be unaware of upper ontologies may be directed to that particular one. So the effect may be of inadvertently biasing attendees.
[16:35] RobRovetto: Interesting parallel with another project. The Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy has calls for people to describe a term. I think some are on our term list.
[16:35] RobRovetto: e.g., Event, Predicate, etc.
[16:38] RobRovetto: So for foundational, upper, etc. I think more discussion is needed. Short of that discussion, I don't think Foundational Onto should necessarily be synonym with Upper, nor Upper Onto with Top-level Onto.
[16:41] FrankLoebe: [action] [MK] find out how to delete pages on pmwiki
[16:41] RobRovetto: empty pages means?
[16:41] FrankLoebe: [action] [MK] delete empty pages (which just contain a heading) by Fri, Sep 07, such that uncovered terms are marked with question marks
[16:44] FrankLoebe: [agreement] there'll be no general publicization of the term list to all IAOA members, but use of it - as work in progress - at ISAO
[16:44] RobRovetto: For adding definitions to the wiki, we are free to?
[16:44] RobRovetto: e.g., object has only one i think
[16:44] FrankLoebe: @Rob: yes
[16:44] FrankLoebe: @Rob: yes, please add if you have definitions, ideally with references
[16:46] RobRovetto: definitions from ontology texts (metaphysics, philosophy, possibly formal ontology) as well? Or would you say only from applied ontology groups/literature/projects?
[16:46] FrankLoebe: @Rob: yes, also definitions from related fields, not only applied ontology
[16:45] FrankLoebe: [agreement] the term list will be mentioned in the Assembly, as EduTC activity
[16:45] FrankLoebe: .
== 2. update on ISAO 2018 ==
[16:47] RobRovetto: is it a diverse group?
[16:47] FrankLoebe: Aldo Gangemi cannot come [[...]], MK will step in to chair at the event itself
[16:47] FrankLoebe: 17 participants so far
[16:49] RobRovetto: various universities, countries, or companies?
[16:49] RobRovetto: yes, attendees of isao
[16:50] FrankLoebe: MK: yes, it is, some people from UCT and some from Stellenbosch, further ones from Africa, plus from Germany, Italy, Canada, U.S., etc.
[16:52] FrankLoebe: MK: two people with industry background as it seems; about 13 PhD students, 4 with PhD already
[16:59] RobRovetto: (lost internet connectivity)
[16:59] FrankLoebe: < discussion about remaining organizational points; most is settled, Pub quiz is a bit up in the air until new questions arrive >
[16:59] RobRovetto: Sidebar: has anyone considered Slack for IAOA Edu or IAOA in general?
[17:00] FrankLoebe: .
== 4. EduTC chairing ==
[17:00] FrankLoebe: MK: I note that Zena and myself chair the EduTC since 2014
[17:01] FrankLoebe: MK: I'm open to receive statements of interest [[for chairing the group, to have a change at some point]]
[17:03] FrankLoebe: FL: it's true, we don't actually have any policy for such changes ...
[17:04] RobRovetto: would you repeat the question, please?
[17:08] FrankLoebe: [action] [FL] add EduTC comments to the FOIS Assembly agenda
[17:08] RobRovetto: none [[regarding: further comments?]]
[17:10] FrankLoebe: MK: If there are any comments either on any kind of rotation model or any personal statements of interest, please let me know.
[17:11] MariaKeet: https://people.cs.uct.ac.za/~mkeet/OEbook/
[17:11] FrankLoebe: MK: the URL just provided refers to my revision of my own lecture notes, now turned into an online textbook
[17:13] FrankLoebe: MK: for the Assembly, I'd basically report on a list of activities that the EduTC has pursued
[17:15] FrankLoebe: [action] [MK] provide a slide with such items for the Assembly slide set
[17:18] RobRovetto: Other thoughts on term list and textbook (another approach): How about an application-based approach. Instead or in addition to beginning with or listing various definitions, we begin with project goals and applications, and how the concept or definition of 'ontology' changes accordingly, and whether ontology architecture changes accordingly, and if/how the use of concepts such as 'foundational', 'top', 'bottom', 'middle', 'core' 'domain' enters the picture. I think a dynamic visualization of all this is possible: perhaps an ontology visualization of conepts that go into describing and applying ontologies
[17:19] MariaKeet: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/OntologySummit2007_FrameworksForConsideration/DimensionsMap.html
[17:20] FrankLoebe: MK: ^ as a reply to Robert's comment
[17:20] RobRovetto: i had something more three dimensional and ambitious in mind. but for another discussion
[17:21] RobRovetto: also had in mind pedagogical approaches for us--as IAOA Education
[17:18] FrankLoebe: MK: what to say about future plans?
[17:22] FrankLoebe: FL: at some point the EduTC needs to think of the next ISAO, i.e., ISAO 2020, to get this initiated early enough
[17:22] FrankLoebe: .
== 6. next meeting(s) with new semester schedules ==
[17:24] FrankLoebe: FL: we should find a new time in order to allow Todd to join, if he wishes to
[17:25] FrankLoebe: [action] [MK] set up a Doodle poll and publicize it via [iaoa-education]
[17:26] FrankLoebe: < session ends >
[17:27] FrankLoebe: .
== participants ==
* JB Julita Bermejo-Alonso
* MK Maria Keet
* FL Frank Loebe
* RR Robert Rovetto
< transcript ends >
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